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"China is a deadend for most people, they just dont realize it yet"

Discussion dans 'Travailler en Chine' créé par windclems, 10 Février 2012.

  1. windclems

    windclems Apprenti

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    Un lien vers un article assez intéressant sur les "réalités" du travail en Chine pour les étrangers. http://dontmovetochina.com/
     
  2. azzote

    azzote Membre Gold

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    Impossible d'acceder au blog...
    J'en ai vu des extraits sur un autre blog, et c'est tres interessant, j'adhere pas mal a son point de vue meme si j'ai bcp de contre-exemples aussi...
    pas mal dans l'humeur du moment en plus avec les lois sur la securite sociale...
     
  3. soalone

    soalone Membre Bronze

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    Accessible pour moi.
    Vraiment excellent article. Je suis d'accord avec lui sur la grande majorité des points.
     
  4. Orang Malang

    Orang Malang Alpha & Oméga
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    Pour ceux qui n'ont pas de V-P-N ...

    [h=1]It’s Not Your Party (“So you want to work in China?”)[/h]Insight for China comer’s seeking to build a career or achieve financial success in China
    Comment 1 ,added 1/22/2011: After reading the responses to my blog that have circulated in the past month, let me clarify a few very important points:
    1. I absolutely love China and living in China. I would not exchange this experience for anything in the world.
    2. I am not disappointed with China. In fact, I do very well here socially and financially. I am paid western standards salary and I have a plethora of wonderful friends, both Chinese and foreign.
    3. I am not 3 years out of college. And I am not a negative person - it called being realistic. Unlike Jonathan Levine, I am trying to explain why it would be hard for a fresh grad to SUCCEED here by the definition of success I put forth in my post. If you don’t care about success, then do not read the article.
    4. I have no desire to keep new foreigners from coming to China “to weed out the competition.” Please…I have better things to do with my time. If you do decide to come to China, I will be the first to welcome you with a cold beer, but newcomers should be well aware of what they are signing up for.
    5. No, I did not have a bad week and no one hit my dog. This article summarizes many of my personal thoughts that have developed throughout my three years here.


    In recent years, foreigners have flocked to Mainland China as they once did to Ellis Island. These masses come in pursuit of study (cultural and linguistic) and work (or, what could easily been regarded as the pursuit of riches). According to China’s latest census released by the National Bureau of Statistics, nearly 600,000 foreigners were living on the Chinese mainland at end of 2010. If you happen to be a foreigner living in China, most conversations with those living elsewhere in word follow a nearly uniform script: looks of amazement and approval, followed by comments about how smart you are to be living in the most lively and ‘happening’ place in the world. Any response you offer in critique of the situation in China is then met with comments about the current economic climate elsewhere in the world and the understandable belief that anyone currently living in China is somehow in on the ground floor of the economic powerhouse of the future.

    It comes as no surprise that people feel this way; the grass looks all the greener when your own turf really is sad and brown. As Noreen Malone’s recent article in New York Magazine aptly points out – a meager 55.3 percent of people aged 16 to 29 are able to find jobs in the United States. What’s worse, nearly 14 percent of college graduates from the classes of 2006 through 2010 are unable find full-time work in the United States. Young college graduates in particular are heading east looking for jobs and opportunities (whatever happened to “go west young boy”)? In this new reality – a lack of US domestic jobs coupled with a smaller globe where more people are afforded the opportunity to look elsewhere for employment – what should a young person do? Should you come to China? Should you stay in China if you already find yourself here? I am contacted daily by young people who are trying to answer this question, all of whom are looking to land a gig in China. What then are the answers?


    First, to be clear, this article is directed to young foreigners who are not otherwise of Chinese descent. The article does not in any way address the topic of American born Chinese and their life in China. Nor is it directed to expats sent to China by multinational corporations who enjoy a comfortable expense account or expats with 20+ years of work experience who then moved to China, like the successful Gary Rieschel from Qiming ventures.
    When I moved to China roughly three years ago, it was for a job. In so moving, I had more than a few friends: Chinese, expatriates, senior executives, etc., who all whistled the same tune: China is a great party, but not your party. By night’s end, one must assume that the hounded bouncer will not let you in. What do I mean by this exactly? Foremost, China, unlike the US, is not an immigration-based society. The Chinese economy and the various business components of such do not need, nor do they want, foreigners. Thus any foreigner trying to reach significant career and financial success in China is working immediately at a competitive disadvantage, i.e., no one is rooting for your success. Without Str0ng allies, nearly all foreigners fail in building a good career or reaching the financial success s/he was hoping for.


    That said, some of these same ‘advisors’ also gave me a glimmer of hope: if you play your cards right and are willing to put in the time, it is possible to make it big: really big. They were absolutely right – one indeed has a small chance to make it big in China. The only stipulation being that one must be willing to put in, say, ten years of hard work, networking, language acquisition, etc. And what’s worse is that nothing is black and white. If you put ten years of solid hard work into a career in the US, chances are you will advance in said career. Even in cases where this doesn’t happen, such individuals leave their career with ten years experience and are more likely to receive Str0ng letters of recommendation on their work ethic. Nothing is set in stone in China.


    My point being: while it is of course possible for a foreigner to live in China, it is very challenging for them to succeed here. This point naturally hinges upon one’s definition of success – I’m talking about making a meaningful leapfrog in one’s career coupled with financial success. The few cases of genuine success, like that of Fritz Demopoulos from Qunar.com, are indeed so few and far between that they represent the exception that proves the rule. Foreigners coming to China often point to the exceptions as a reason to come, but what they often fail to realize is the amount of hard work (combined with pure luck) that it took for these few examples to succeed. The reality is that the majority of foreigners coming to China fail – they do not get lucky and they leave with very little to show for their time. At the end of the day, foreigners in China are constantly swimming upstream, working much harder than s/he would in the west and accomplishing less. Communication will be harder, even assuming that one is fluent in Chinese. Unlike the US, where immigrants can succeed mightily, opening their own business in many cases, China is not an immigration driven society. It is not very open to foreigners and even hostile to their success. This goes for all non-Chinese people: China is equally as uninterested in a white girl or African American guy who just graduated from Harvard Business School, Yale Law, or the like. Even people with the best degrees who come here to make their fortune will often end up simply studying Chinese language at some university in Beijing.


    At this point, it is important to again clarify my intended audience. That is, people who come to China looking for work. There are of course examples where multinational corporations send foreigners with a specific skill set into China for a specific reason. These individuals are naturally well compensated but there employment has its base outside the borders of Mainland China. For people who come to China to find employment from within, it is important to be reminded that compensation is low in both domestic and foreign companies operating within China. And, because of the massive number of working-age citizens in China, there are very few skill sets in demand from foreigners that can’t already be found in a pool of Chinese applicants, applicants who, I might add, are far more accustomed to working for lower wages. If you as a foreigner are unwilling to do something cheaply, then guess what – twenty-five Chinese nationals with a similar education and skill sets are willing to work for cheap. Yes, you can make $5000 USD a month here as a foreigner with a job; but good luck finding these positions. This sort of salary - $5000 USD per month - is extremely high in China; more than likely, one would need years and years of experience to land such a position. When talking about an NGO job, many companies offer around $1200 USD a month. This is a decent salary for a local Chinese employee (a local waitress can earn less than $400 USD a month; much less). Knowing this, many people still come – but why? Why do people come and work for milk money? Why are people willing to lose money working in China? Most people’s answer to this is: “experience” – that working in China will build your resume and make you a more competitive candidate elsewhere in the world. If that’s your answer, then fine. Unquestionably, working in China is an experience – but is it experience that translates to real dollars and cents in the future? Not anymore. Maybe this was the case in the past, but today the global market has become so flooded by individuals who have ‘experience in China’ that sooner than later Harvard and Stanford business school will grow accustomed to seeing this sort of thing. Businesses will already have people who worked in China and your experience will not do much in terms of separating you from the rest of the pack. It goes without saying that you will get much better management and operational experience working for a US-based company.
     
  5. Orang Malang

    Orang Malang Alpha & Oméga
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    For the sake of argument, let’s just say that you want the China experience and don’t care about the money. Unfortunately for you, Chinese companies and foreign companies do not hire foreigners in China; they hire Chinese passports holders, sometimes American Born Chinese (ABCs), and – even more rare – high-level expat management, and only because of their expertise. Whether it is Goldman Sachs, BCG, or a random Chinese company, they all want to hire Chinese locals, who, unlike the majority of foreigners who speak OK Chinese, can actually read and write. It makes sense right? After all, this is China and Chinese people in theory should know how to make things happen best, at least the Chinese way. Any local person speaks better Chinese than you (no matter how many classes you have taken or tours you have been on) and locals simply understand the culture better than any foreigner. Locals can read legal contracts. And they can navigate complex bureaucratic paperwork and bank procedures. So, I ask, why would anyone hire a foreigner?

    Some argue that if the Chinese economy continues to grow at 8-10%, then more and more Chinese companies might be willing to hire foreigners at internationally competitive compensation, including those who have the know-how (i.e. English writing skills or basic marketing knowledge for Western consumers) to assist companies enter foreign markets. The point is that right now Chinese and foreign companies in China don’t want foreign labor. For example, a good friend of mine had an interview with a Senior Executive in Beijing. Aware of the majority of foreign companies based in China, the first thing he said to her after showing a list of 100 companies was: “See all these companies? None of them want to hire you.”

    Of course it would be smart if more Chinese companies would take on more foreigners to help them liaise with foreign manufacturers, retailers, or competitors, but at this stage, these positions are rare, and generally underpaid. If the economy does continue to grow at 8-10%, then jobs outside of China that require an applicant to have a working knowledge of China and Mandarin will certainly be more common. I’ve been convinced for years that there are numerous jobs that will be created for people with China experience and fluent Mandarin because of China’s growth, but these jobs are NOT in China.

    Now give or take, some people will make a joke out of this situation, like the white guy who works at the Starbucks at Dongsishitiao (a neighborhood in Beijing). This is cool. But seriously, other than writing a book, what are you going to get from doing all kind of joke jobs, being underpaid and underemployed for some Chinese startup whose Harvard MBA Chinese CEO is hiring English speaking foreigners for milk money? The idealistic wish of your average Joe working in Beijing for milk-money that ‘this will all pay off some day’ is not happening. Let me tell you: you will get absolutely nothing.

    From experience, I can tell you that if and when the miracle happens, when you get a job in Chinese company, you are alienated. You will be a foreigner working among all those Beijing University top graduates. You will try very hard to eat with them and socialize and make friends. But you will forever be the foreigner and there will be a lot of misunderstandings. Yes, it is going to be a very unique and interesting experience. Just remember life is not a dress rehearsal and this is never truer than when you are working for a Multinational Corporation in China. So how can anyone win? Well that is just it. No one wins and you are not likely to be any different. Again, a few foreigners set a different example, but I would look at the vast majority. Companies like Groupon are hiring dozens of foreigners for their Chinese operations once in a decade, not once a year – so forget about something like that happening again.

    Finally, let us run through common misconceptions about China and debunk certain myths that people have used as an excuse to still come in spite of everything I have said above. 1) China is cheap; 2) The culture is fascinating; 3) There are so many awesome people in China; 4) The city is not that polluted; 5) Learning mandarin is cool; 6) It is easy to get a work visa.

    China is Cheap

    Correction, China is not cheap in major urban centers. Living in Chinese cities like Beijing was once cheap; however, now the only way to live cheaply in Beijing is if you are willing to prostitute your life and live like a dog, renting a soviet-style apartment that was never up to western standards and has fallen even further behind in the thirty years since being built. To live cheaply one needs to eat only local food and drink only Chinese beer from convenient stores. In fact, for years, I have done this – eaten at hole-in-wall Chinese restaurants, snacked on 2 RMB Chinese lamb kabobs, and consumed only Tsingdao or Yanjing beers – and I loved it, but be warned it is not the health or taste equivalent to Mom’s home-cooked meals. (There is one only thing in major urban centers that is still truly cheap – cigarettes. If saving a few dollars on your smoking habit is of great importance to you, then China is the place for you.) What the cost of living basically boils down to is this: in order to live a “western” lifestyle in China, you have got to have money. Western style apartments with conveniences like an oven, shower stalls, or curved pipes (to keep smells out) are expensive and western style food is not cheap either (and don’t get me started on imported cheeses). To live somewhat comfortably and compromise only somewhat in regards to quality of life, you will easily burn through $3000 USD a month. This figure is assuming that one still eats and drinks local products that are cheap. I have known only a few people here who have saved money; far more often the story is of a stranded bankrupt calling his or her parents to borrow money for a plane ticket home.

    The Culture is Fascinating

    It is not that the culture isn’t fascinating; it’s just that you will not get it. You will not understand the culture and you will not have many Chinese friends. You will have three and it will take three years to generate these friendships. I am not talking about the Chinese who have previously spent ten years studying or working in the US, but about locals without any foreign experience - the people whom so many foreigners are eager to know. Even if you do have a few local friends, there will always be a canyon that is unbridgeable. There is a cultural gap and no amount of understanding and interest can ever truly bridge this. This gap is only overcome when both individuals have spent time in each other’s countries. This type of match is rare. For most foreigners eager to explore Chinese culture and make ‘real’ Chinese local friends, what ends up happening – after coping with initial culture shock and the daily frustrations of an inefficient society – is that they hang out solely with other expats at local coffee shops and bars. Maybe you think you are different, and maybe you are. But I have been here long enough to realize that patterns and norms are patterns and norms for a reason. People say that coming to China is a great strategic move. But this is because a) they haven’t really thought about it. They just say it because they dislike silence and want to be polite; and b) they are looking at the longer term. If pressed, I’d be surprised if they thought a college graduate faced better prospects in China than their home country. It’s no secret that it’s difficult to assimilate into Chinese culture.

    The Awesome People Living in China

    There are awesome expats in China – undoubtedly. And if one wants to come spend a year hanging out, it can be fun. However, because these communities are very transient, like any expat community should be, one has to constantly make new friends. The only alternative to the hard work that it takes to constantly make new friends is to hang out with those people who have planted themselves in China. You don’t want to become “one of those people.” Who are they and how does one avoid them? Basically the expats who must be avoided at all costs are losers in their home country who are unable to get laid in their own social setting. They end up coming to China to sleep with Chinese girls and then never leave. Twelve years later these people are talking about the good old days of China. Your friends will be the academics, journalists and hipsters that only chose to be here for a few years. And you will need to create new friendships every year or so. Pretty easy process for social butterfly like you, but still very time consuming.

    The City is Not That Polluted

    Just because the Olympics were here does not mean that Beijing is not the most dangerous city for one’s health in the world. In moving to Beijing, just remember you are moving to one of the most polluted cities the world. Staying indoors doesn’t even help. Your lungs will be upset with you. The world health organization just created a new threat level for the air quality. Trust me, it is really bad (i.e. Crazy bad!). While some friends here, including myself, don’t think twice about the dark grey clouds that settle on this city in the early morning, people must remember that it exists. And, with James Fallows posting that the fine particulate concentration can take 5-6 years off your life, you can’t forget the choice you are making in moving here. While the fog might not kill you, the fine pollution particles that float in it will, whether you care or not!

    Learning and Speaking Mandarin is Cool

    Yes it is - it is really cool. In fact, learning Mandarin is awesome. But again, what about your life? In the time I have put into learning the mandarin language, I could have probably learned how to become a solid quant trader. I have nothing against learning new languages. In fact, I have learned four and I have many friends who speak extremely good mandarin. But let me just say, the better the person’s mandarin level, the better the chances that he or she has already left or will leave China after a few years. A person intelligent enough to reach a truly high level is intelligent enough to realize that China is not a place for a foreigner long-term.

    Work Visas are Easy

    Working visas are not easy to come by – people under 25 years of age are not eligible for a work visa, according to the Chinese law, even if they find a job. Just FYI. What’s more, two years of work experience at minimum is required of those who meet the age requirements. Then there is the whole problem of expiration dates and you having to leave the country (Hong Kong) in order to get it renewed or using a service. The long and short of work visas is: it’s a pain.
    But Beijing is cool! There are so many artisans and hipsters – true! The scholars, journalists, writers and cabaret singers, together with ultimate Frisbee players and choir boys are all having a blast! And, by hanging out with them you will have a blast, too. If you want to come to Beijing, hang out for a year and basically have a blast – then do it. There are amazing things happening here every day and amazing people filtering in and out. Just don’t expect there to be huge business or career opportunities. Before coming, one needs to sit down and think long and hard about what s/he wants out of a Chinese experience. If you are happy to have fun for a year, meet new friends, and hang out in a wildly diverse environment, then by all means come. If, however, you have a career development expectation and will be disappointed if it isn’t met, then I can only advise you to think again – you will most likely be disappointed, and many of my friends found this to be the case after a few years in China.
     
  6. MTT

    MTT Demi-dieu

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    En effet l'article est très bien, nuancé et bien dans la tendance, a comparer avec les offres "d'emploi" qui grossissent de manière exponentielle sur bonjourchine et autres avec des bac+5 quadrilingues demandés, payés 0 RMB + Comissions sans visa.
     
  7. Orang Malang

    Orang Malang Alpha & Oméga
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    En effet, c'est fou le nombre d'entreprises qui ont besoin de mouton à cinq pattes ... mais seulement prêtes à les tondre ...
     
  8. azzote

    azzote Membre Gold

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    Merci mattcoq

    100% d'accord avec tout l'article...
     
  9. LiliShanghai

    LiliShanghai Membre Silver

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    Article bien ecrit avec un point de vue realiste sur la situation mais:
    - Cette realite n'est a mon avis pas propre a la Chine et on peut y etre confronte dans beaucoup de pays "emergents"
    - Quelque soit le pays d'accueil, c'est quand meme assez rare de faire fortune du jour au lendemain. En general ca prend du temps, beaucoup d'energie et pas mal de hauts et de bas...Le reve Americain a l'epoque ce n'etait pas non plus la panassee

    Bref je pense que ca vaut le coup d'etre lu, mais de la a en faire un blog...je trouve ca un peu "extreme" comme approche.
     
  10. Zhu Li An

    Zhu Li An Ange

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    si si, depuis quelques mois je suis entrain de réaliser que c'est effectivement un "Dead-end", mon objectif pour 2013 est de me barrer d'ici, ou dans le pire des cas me casser de Shanghai...
     
  11. lafoy-china

    lafoy-china Alpha & Oméga
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    Bonjour

    L'article est plein de bon sens et de realite ,la Chine n'est pas un eldorado ,il ne suffit pas de se baisser pour ramasser les pepites .

    La difference est bien notee entre l'expat des grosses boites avec packages full option,

    Le jeune diplome qui veut tout casser des le debut et qui se retrouve a la plonge au mc Do, ou avec un job de misere ,ou un job interessant paye a coup de lances pierres .

    Le sempiternel" pue des pieds "qui echoue en Chine '" pour faire fortune et trouver compagne ,en etant convaincu que son pays d'origine ne lui a jamais donne sa chance ,au vu de son exceptionnelle valeur , qui repart aussi vite qu'il est arrive, une main devant une main derriere et les oreilles pour applaudir .

    Le vieux style Lafoy tapi dans l'ombre , qui bosse tout simplement , tres heureux de sa situation a tout les niveaux en Chine et a Hong-Kong .

    De mon opinion il est possible de reussir pour un jeune motive , et surtout travailleur en Chine , de la a devenir riche je ne le pense pas ,mais les miracles existent .

    Mais une chose est sure les Chinois ne vous feront jamais de cadeaux ,surtout si vous ne representez rien ,mais ca en general dans le monde du business ,c'est un point commun qui n'a ni drapeaux ,ni couleur de peaux ,ni religions .
     
    #11 lafoy-china, 13 Février 2012
    Dernière édition: 13 Février 2012
  12. Ludovico

    Ludovico Dieu créateur

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    Tout dépend de ce que tu place dans le terme "riche"... Chacun ayant un standard différent.

    Dans mon cas, la Chine n'a pas été une "dead end", mais bon, avant de pouvoir avoir une entreprise pérenne il a fallu pas moins de 3 ans. Je suis entièrement d'accord avec lafoy, il faut être travailleur, et ceci encore maintenant pour continuer à la faire prospérer, c'est une règle qui ne se limite pas aux frontières.
     
    #12 Ludovico, 13 Février 2012
    Dernière édition: 13 Février 2012
  13. A_zhongshan_un_chti

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    <<Si vous ne représentez rien>>

    Qu'est ce que tu veux exprimer avec <<représenter rien>>?

    Représenter un Etat, une entreprise, une ethnie, un ordre religieux, un capital???

    Je ne vois pas où tu veux en venir.
     
  14. lafoy-china

    lafoy-china Alpha & Oméga
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    Pour moi etre riche c'est decider de mon quotidien, sans me priver de ce que je desire , et surtout une bonne sante ..
    Ce n'est pas grand chose , mais c'est l'Himalaya en tongues et string ficelle pour certains .
     
    #14 lafoy-china, 13 Février 2012
    Dernière édition: 13 Février 2012
  15. lafoy-china

    lafoy-china Alpha & Oméga
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    A ta question tu as repondu toi meme ,jeune Padawan .

    Du cote de la force sombre ,ne bascule pas .
     
  16. Ludovico

    Ludovico Dieu créateur

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    Lafoy de répondra certainement mieux que moi,

    Je l'interprète de cette manière, si dans ta liste client tu représente "Total", c'est mieux que "bachimachin". Dans mon domaine je travail avec 3 entreprises réputées, quand je passe chez mes fournisseurs on me prend au sérieux.

    edit: lafoy a répondu !!!
     
  17. Cyril.G

    Cyril.G Dieu Supérieur

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    Merci pour l'article... ça reflète bien la réalité..
     
  18. Garfield

    Garfield Membre Gold

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    Super article qui je trouve reflete la realite de la quasi totalite des etrangers qui debarque ici a l'aventure.

    Moi je trouve que c'est quand meme tres tres dur de reussir (a comprendre dans le sens de s'enrichir financierement) ici pour un etranger qui arrive tout seul, voire quasiment impossible si on ne debarque pas deja tres costaud (experience, competences, idees, argent, capacite de travail, adaptabilite, endurance, etc).

    Il y a toujours l'exception qui confirme la regle, mais perso j'en connais pas vraiment. Le seul etranger que je connaisse qui a reellement "reussi financierement a partir de rien en Chine" avait un MBA en finance et 5 ans d'experience pro a l'international derriere lui avant d'arriver, a cree sa boite ici en levant des fonds aupres d'investisseurs privees (donc avait deja un bon carnet d'addresses) et y a investi toutes ses economies tout en empruntant a sa famille, et l'a revendu 10 ans apres a un grand groupe en faisant la culbute (tout en etant passe pres de la faillite plusieurs fois pendant les 5 premieres annees). Il n'y serait jamais arrive sans competence / carnet d'addresses et surtout argent. Ce mec la a reussi en Chine, mais il aurait reussi n'importe ou. Et il a frole la ruine et la crise cardiaque quelques fois...

    Apres il y a aussi plein d'etrangers qui sont heureux en Chine, sans forcement etre riche. Ils aiment le pays, y ont fonde une famille, et sont contents de leurs situations. Ces gens la ont aussi reussis, dans un sens different voila tout.

    La Chine peut etre une "dead-end" ou pas, ca depend ce que l'on apporte et ce que l'on espere en retour...
     
  19. katsudon

    katsudon Membre Platinum

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    Je ne comprends pas vraiment l'objectif de l'article. Lorsque quelqu'un décide de s'expatrier ou de venir chercher un job en Chine, il n'est pas nécessairement:

    1- Focalise sur le fait de devenir riche.

    2- S'il cherche a devenir riche, assez con pour se dire qu'en arrivant les mains dans les poches la Chine va lui en mettre plein les poches.

    3- Venu pour s'installer pour la vie. Beaucoup des jeunes que j'ai croise ici sont venu pour savoir ce qu’était ce pays dont tout le monde parle, ou vivre l'aventure du quotidien a l'autre bout de la planète... Il y a aussi des aspirations romantiques...

    Il y a plein d'information intéressantes et bien observées pour celui qui n'est jamais venu. Mais le ton "attends j't'esplique. Tu crois pas que tu va faire fortune en débarquant ici quand même?" est soit de trop, soit a cote de la cible.

    Parce que finalement le pendant de cet article fleuve pourrait tenir en quelques mots:

    "Bouges toi et viens voir de toi même."

    Ça n'a jamais tué grand monde d’être déçu de ses rêves. Pourquoi dresse t il autant de panneaux "danger" devant le nez des aventuriers potentiels?

    Nous sommes quand même un paquets d’étrangers a vivre en Chine, y avoir une vie épanouie et y gagner notre pain assez correctement pour vivre non? Pourquoi emploie t il ce ton "faudra pas venir pleurer après"?

    M'enfin. D’ailleurs son passage sur le coût de la vie a l'occidentale a 3000$/mois... je réalise que ça doit être frustrant pour beaucoup d’être américain en Chine! Il y a un juste milieu entre vivre en cite dortoir insalubre et dans un compound all inclusive en centre ville! Je m'estime très chanceux de pouvoir habiter un grand appart en centre ville que je trouve cher pour ici, mais que je devrais payer du double au triple pour l’équivalent a Paris! Donc oui, le coût de la vie a augmente ces dernières années, mais ça reste encore faible par rapport a la vie en Europe et donc j'imagine aux USA...

    Il a le cafard notre ami.
     
  20. MTT

    MTT Demi-dieu

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    Il explique surtout (a raison) que généralement les entreprises multinationales choisissent en majorité des locaux. Je pense que c'est un bon article pour les personnes qui pensent qu'en faisant un MBA ou whatever dans une université à Shanghai vont ensuite casser la baraque

    un autre point pas mentionné dans l'article est qu'en Chine plus qu'ailleurs, les gros $$$ se font presque toujours avec un sale mix avec le PCC, parti dont vous n'aurez bien sûr en tant qu'étranger jamais la carte.

    même si vous avez un produit ultra innovant,; que vous investissez 50 millions de RMB et que vous faites la R&D en Chine vous n'aurez pas un kopek d'aide du gouv. chinois en étant basé en Chine. D'ailleurs il y aura surement 5 entreprises qui vous copieront 30 jours après la mise sur le marché du dit produit. Bref, comme il le dit, d'une manière générale, les Chinois n'ont en pas grand chose à faire des étrangers.

    Comme dit plus haut, si on sait pourquoi on est là, et qu'on connait les limites, et les difficultés du marché Chinois, ça va. Pour les autres, c'est un bon avertissement
     

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